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Installing Hydraulic Ram Assist Steering on a SAS


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#31 OFFLINE   891Ton

 
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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:50 PM

Yes but the rate is different if its not hooked up. Tack it on then start cranking. But there is so much air you need to do it like 100 times. I went back and forth for about 10 minutes straight with the truck running after I got it all tacked up.
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#32 OFFLINE   DirtRidinZ71

 
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Posted 07 March 2014 - 07:16 PM

Well I spent a few more hours working on the steering again today with no luck on getting it right. I undid the cooler, lowered where the lines come through the rad support and laid the cooler on the bumper, looks to be all lower then the pump.
I Left one end of the ram attached and cycled from lock to lock for 10 minutes and still no great assist. With the front tire in the snow bank I still had to use 2 hands to turn the wheel. The cylinder is working I can see it attempting to push the tie rod when in the snow but not enough pressure to, still air in the system? Tried again for another 10 min of lock to lock but no better.
When going from lock to lock the steering is hard while the ram is moving but once it fully extends/retracts steering is "normal". .
I don't know if it's still air trapped in the system or maybe my pump is to weak? Looking for any ideas and help I've never done a hydro assist setup before and can't seem to find any similar problems when searching.
Here is a small video of the ram working. This is before the second 10 min session of bleeding the ram which made it stop extending by itself and only moved with the steering input. I just unhooked both ends of ram so it was easier to see in the video of it working.

th_MOV_0131_zpse2112335.jpg

Edited by DirtRidinZ71, 07 March 2014 - 07:17 PM.

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1992 GMC K1500
SAS with HP D60 front axle & 10.25" Sterling rear axle, 5.38 gears 
10" of lift, Shortened 10", 38.5x15x15 Boggers
350 TBI, cam, intake, chip
Realtree APG Camo wrap
2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
4.2L Vortec, 3.73 Gears, G80
2" Rough Country Lift, 245/75R16 Kelly Safari TSR's
Build Thread: http://www.gmc4x4.co...ic-heavy/page-1


#33 OFFLINE   jepercreper

 
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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:19 PM

That cylinder acts like it has a bad valve/seal, it should not move until you turn the wheel. It looked like it was bleeding by, that would definitely cause a pressure problem in the system.
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#34 OFFLINE   DirtRidinZ71

 
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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:26 PM

That cylinder acts like it has a bad valve/seal, it should not move until you turn the wheel. It looked like it was bleeding by, that would definitely cause a pressure problem in the system.


After the second 10 mintues of going lock to lock the cylinder stopped extending on its own and only moved with steering input. I'll try to get another video on how it is working currently tomorrow and post
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1992 GMC K1500
SAS with HP D60 front axle & 10.25" Sterling rear axle, 5.38 gears 
10" of lift, Shortened 10", 38.5x15x15 Boggers
350 TBI, cam, intake, chip
Realtree APG Camo wrap
2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
4.2L Vortec, 3.73 Gears, G80
2" Rough Country Lift, 245/75R16 Kelly Safari TSR's
Build Thread: http://www.gmc4x4.co...ic-heavy/page-1


#35 OFFLINE   jepercreper

 
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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:29 PM

Good deal!
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#36 OFFLINE   DirtRidinZ71

 
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Posted 08 March 2014 - 05:02 PM

Good deal!


Except it is still does not seem to be adding any assist. I'm going to modify the pressure port of the pump to allow more flow and see if that helps. If not then I'll eliminate the cooler to rule out air trapped in it.
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1992 GMC K1500
SAS with HP D60 front axle & 10.25" Sterling rear axle, 5.38 gears 
10" of lift, Shortened 10", 38.5x15x15 Boggers
350 TBI, cam, intake, chip
Realtree APG Camo wrap
2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
4.2L Vortec, 3.73 Gears, G80
2" Rough Country Lift, 245/75R16 Kelly Safari TSR's
Build Thread: http://www.gmc4x4.co...ic-heavy/page-1


#37 OFFLINE   891Ton

 
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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:32 PM

Have you tried reversing the lines?
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#38 OFFLINE   891Ton

 
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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:35 PM

I had a similar issue when I first hooked it up. I switched them and it worked perfect. After its been running for a while what's the fluid look like? Were u bleeding it with the cap off? Any loud sound of pump wine?
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#39 OFFLINE   DirtRidinZ71

 
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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:16 AM

Have you tried reversing the lines?

No I haven't. I figured that since the ram is working and moving the right direction and not trying to destroy everything that they were on right but I can unhook and swap them, I'm not really out much. 
 

I had a similar issue when I first hooked it up. I switched them and it worked perfect. After its been running for a while what's the fluid look like? Were u bleeding it with the cap off? Any loud sound of pump wine?


After running it for the fluid still looks good, its not excessively foamed up or anything, I'm also running ATF in it.
I've tried it with the cap on and off, neither seemed to help, which is the best way to do it?
Pump is not whinning or making any unusual sounds.

What was your system like before all the air got bled out of the system? Steering moved smoothly but was stiffer with no assist? I think I may temporarly bypass my cooler to eliminate a air pocket in it and see if any change in the steering. I've also did the redneck ram pump mods to the parts of an old pump that I will install at some point too after more simple trouble shooting.
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1992 GMC K1500
SAS with HP D60 front axle & 10.25" Sterling rear axle, 5.38 gears 
10" of lift, Shortened 10", 38.5x15x15 Boggers
350 TBI, cam, intake, chip
Realtree APG Camo wrap
2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
4.2L Vortec, 3.73 Gears, G80
2" Rough Country Lift, 245/75R16 Kelly Safari TSR's
Build Thread: http://www.gmc4x4.co...ic-heavy/page-1


#40 OFFLINE   DirtRidinZ71

 
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Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:30 PM

Have you tried reversing the lines?


I tried switching the lines around today and they definitely were not on backwards. But the cylinder is back to extending on its own. If bypassing the cooler does not help nor the pump mods then I'll pull the ram off and take it apart to inspect the seals.
___________________________________________________________

1992 GMC K1500
SAS with HP D60 front axle & 10.25" Sterling rear axle, 5.38 gears 
10" of lift, Shortened 10", 38.5x15x15 Boggers
350 TBI, cam, intake, chip
Realtree APG Camo wrap
2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
4.2L Vortec, 3.73 Gears, G80
2" Rough Country Lift, 245/75R16 Kelly Safari TSR's
Build Thread: http://www.gmc4x4.co...ic-heavy/page-1


#41 OFFLINE   891Ton

 
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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:38 PM

Before the air got bled out mine would heat up and I kept having to turn the truck off and let it cool. It would be all bubbly in the reservoire and would be foamy.with no steering change. It would still be hard. I kept the cap off and after it cooled I would fill the reservoir and go lock to lock again for 5-10 minutes. I had to do that 3-4 times before it finally got real smooth and just turned real easy. I was getting real pissed with it at first too. Its gotta be your ram. Did u buy a new one? I would never use a used one. The seals go bad.
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#42 OFFLINE   DirtRidinZ71

 
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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:27 PM

The ram is new, I did have to cut the fixed end mount off and rotate it so the fittings pointed up. I made sure the cylinder was extended so that the inside seals wouldn't be as close to the end when re welding it.
I'll try bleeding it some more first but the steering input does not seem to be improving any, with the ram unhooked it is actually easier to turn the steering wheel then with it hooked up. My steering has the normal factory assist just nothing from the ram.
I've done hours of searching online but have not been able to find anything about the ram extending on its own like mine. Would air in the cylinder cause this too?
With the truck running can you compress or extend your cylinder by hand? How about with it running?

Lastly with the hydro assist working like it should I should be able to bury the front tires in the snow, put truck in park and turn the wheel pretty effortlessly correct?

Thanks for the help, this simple upgrade is beginning to be a headache.

Edited by DirtRidinZ71, 09 March 2014 - 07:35 PM.

___________________________________________________________

1992 GMC K1500
SAS with HP D60 front axle & 10.25" Sterling rear axle, 5.38 gears 
10" of lift, Shortened 10", 38.5x15x15 Boggers
350 TBI, cam, intake, chip
Realtree APG Camo wrap
2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
4.2L Vortec, 3.73 Gears, G80
2" Rough Country Lift, 245/75R16 Kelly Safari TSR's
Build Thread: http://www.gmc4x4.co...ic-heavy/page-1


#43 OFFLINE   891Ton

 
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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:43 PM

The fact that u cut the fixed end mount off interests me. Did u cut into the ram at all? Is there a chance there's a leak? I just seams like there is air getting in somewhere. No once its bled you should not be able to move it by hand very easily if at all. I could barely......move it by hand before I hooked it up before it was bled. It was so stiff I had to put fluid to it just to get it out.

Yes to your last question. I can bury my wheels in the snow and turn the wheel with no effort. Like I said in the build thread, when its done right and everything is working properly you can turn the wheel with one finger in park on pavement. And if I can do that with high steer which is about twice as hard to turn, a low steer setup should be even easier.

That really sucks. There is a problem somewhere. There's no fluid leaking anywhere? What method did u use for tapping the box?
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#44 OFFLINE   AA1PR

 
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Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:31 PM

I wonder if the heat from wekding killied the inner seal from heat transfer

 

best of luck it sounds like you tried everything


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#45 OFFLINE   DirtRidinZ71

 
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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:57 AM

The fact that u cut the fixed end mount off interests me. Did u cut into the ram at all? Is there a chance there's a leak?

Nope never cut into the ram at all, there was a nice wide weld to cut easily with the zip wheel, then grinded the rest down smooth. No visible leaks at all that I have found.

I just seams like there is air getting in somewhere. No once its bled you should not be able to move it by hand very easily if at all. I could barely......move it by hand before I hooked it up before it was bled. It was so stiff I had to put fluid to it just to get it out.

Interesting. Right now I could go unhook my ram grab it with both hands and move the ram in or out, not easily but is moveable, this is with the truck off.

Yes to your last question. I can bury my wheels in the snow and turn the wheel with no effort. Like I said in the build thread, when its done right and everything is working properly you can turn the wheel with one finger in park on pavement. And if I can do that with high steer which is about twice as hard to turn, a low steer setup should be even easier.

Atleast that gives me some motivation to keep working at getting it right. Ha

That really sucks. There is a problem somewhere. There's no fluid leaking anywhere? What method did u use for tapping the box?

Again no fluid that I can see leaking from anywhere, fittings are all nice and dry only fluid is from overfilling the reservoir.
I drilled and tapped the box in the side same as this link on pirate http://www.pirate4x4...tTap/index.html
Now I did not tear the box down to fully clean out, I greased the drill bit and tap, used magnet, flushed and blew the box out with compressed air. This is something that others have down without a problem, of course I new that there still is a possibility of not getting it fully cleaned out that way.

Today the plan is to tear everything back apart, inspect, double check and look it all over, do the pump mod at the same time.

The other thing is that I am running 1/4" hydraulic lines from the box to the ram, some are saying they are to small and not giving enough flow to the ram. I had thought that is what I had seen most use and asked the couple local guys and that's what they said used, easily could of been mistaken though.

I wonder if the heat from wekding killied the inner seal from heat transfer

best of luck it sounds like you tried everything


That is a possiblilty. I haven't ruled it out yet.
___________________________________________________________

1992 GMC K1500
SAS with HP D60 front axle & 10.25" Sterling rear axle, 5.38 gears 
10" of lift, Shortened 10", 38.5x15x15 Boggers
350 TBI, cam, intake, chip
Realtree APG Camo wrap
2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
4.2L Vortec, 3.73 Gears, G80
2" Rough Country Lift, 245/75R16 Kelly Safari TSR's
Build Thread: http://www.gmc4x4.co...ic-heavy/page-1





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