Jump to content




Photo
- - - - -

Removing Cats/Engine tune/and O2 sensors.

removing catsengine tuneand o2 sensors

  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   dvanbramer88

 
dvanbramer88

    Back Road Traveler

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
    • Time Online: 29d 23h 36m 24s
801
Listen To This Guy!
  • Name:Dave
  • LocationPA, Bristol
  • Truck(s):97 Chevy K1500 Z71
    99 Silverado 1500 4x4
    00 Jeep XJ sport
Garage View Garage
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:41 PM

I'm going to try to make the bombardment of information as easy to follow as possible. Stay with me. I've been researching this all morning.

 

 

Facts:

I have engine code for Bank 1 cat below efficiency threshold. That cat is loose in it's case and rattles; I'm assuming the blow by is causing the code.

 

I have  the engine code for bank 2; sensor 2 heat circuit (O2 sensor)

 

I have been fighting the cats and O2 sensors for some time now.

 

Replaced the cats about 30,000 miles ago with aftermarket unit and replaced all 4 O2 sensors at the same time.

 

(I know the cats are under warranty from the government but not sure about how to go about claiming on that; and not even sure if i can find proof of purchase for the cats. I bought them from an online retailer. They originally sent me a set that was bad right out of the box, and i exchanged a ton of emails with them. I might be able to dig up saved emails and find an order number somewhere. Also, the one local exhaust shop I've been in semi-recently had a sign up that said claims on the government warranty required a $60 diagnostics fee. (I call ####))

 

Options for a fix:

 

Anyway, For less than the price of another set of cats (~$300+) I can get a PCM4Less engine tune ($195 total) and have them remove the protocol for the cats and rear O2 sensors. Along with curing my problem, I get more power, better fuel economy and a better driving truck, all for less than replacing the sensor and cats.

 

Replace the one cat with a universal model and replace the O2 sensor. (With code from both sides, I'm not 100% certain if both cats are bad or if 1 cat is bad. But the one cat IS definatly loose in it's case and makes a lot of noise.) So with this route I might end up replacing both cats anyway and possibly more O2 sensors.

 

Brings me back to the tune, which would be an end all be all. No more cats, forget about the rear o2 sensors, and more efficiency. And save money.

 

 

Lets assume I get a tune. What to do with the cats?

 

Options:

 

Remove them and replace them with pipe (frowned upon by FED GOV and also against PA vehicle code (My truck needs to pass emissions)

 

Hollow them out and put them back on the truck. Looks good to the inspection shop and makes everyone happy.

 

Leave them as is until they cause problems or clog; (Which the might not ever do, and they show no signs of doing that right now. The truck isn't running rich or experiencing any other problems.)

 

 

Opinions or experience would be greatly appreciated. Also, I don't really want to mess with O2 simulators. I've seen a lot of people who struggled to make them work in my research.


___________________________________________________________

"Raise some hell where the blacktop ends!"
Chevy Power!
:flag: :chevrolet:    BUILD THREAD
b167c32a-877f-4b10-a086-8881ecefbccc_zps
"Violence is not always evil. The judicious use of violence and those willing to use it without hesitation is often all that stands between wolves and sheep."


#2 OFFLINE   dvanbramer88

 
dvanbramer88

    Back Road Traveler

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
    • Time Online: 29d 23h 36m 24s
801
Listen To This Guy!
  • Name:Dave
  • LocationPA, Bristol
  • Truck(s):97 Chevy K1500 Z71
    99 Silverado 1500 4x4
    00 Jeep XJ sport
Garage View Garage
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 22 May 2013 - 02:36 PM

I just exchanged a few emails with PCM4less.

 

They can do exactly what I'm asking them to do. Delete the rear O2 sensors and make the computer not worry about the cats.

 

With the direction I am going, he said i can pick up 12-15 HP on 87 octane and 20+ on Premium fuel. Gain about 1 mpg. Improved shift points, throttle response, remove top speed limiter, and adjust shift firmness.

 

 

I'm thinking about the 87 octane tune, definatly improving the shift points, removing the top speed limiter (Why not?), and adjusting the shift firmness 1 step above factory.

 

 

I also have the option to remove the EGR system with the tune. Anyone know about that? What would I have to do to the truck on my end? What would the benefits be?


___________________________________________________________

"Raise some hell where the blacktop ends!"
Chevy Power!
:flag: :chevrolet:    BUILD THREAD
b167c32a-877f-4b10-a086-8881ecefbccc_zps
"Violence is not always evil. The judicious use of violence and those willing to use it without hesitation is often all that stands between wolves and sheep."


#3 OFFLINE   DirtRidinZ71

 
DirtRidinZ71

    Got Mud?

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,314 posts
    • Time Online: 65d 11h 58m 8s
2,370
Hail The Almighty!
  • Name:Scott
  • LocationNew Brunswick, Canada
Garage View Garage
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:09 PM

Of your options I would defintly go for the tune and, since completely removing the cats is illegal I would simply gut them to atleast look legal. If one is making noises enough for you to consider changing it then no since of leaving it with the tune.

 

I also have the option to remove the EGR system with the tune. Anyone know about that? What would I have to do to the truck on my end? What would the benefits be?

 

On the Vortecs on benefit of removing the EGR is if you are after headers, since the EGR tube runs into the drivers side manifold. The non EGR ones are cheaper.


___________________________________________________________

1992 GMC K1500
SAS with HP D60 front axle & 10.25" Sterling rear axle, 5.38 gears 
10" of lift, Shortened 10", 38.5x15x15 Boggers
350 TBI, cam, intake, chip
Realtree APG Camo wrap
2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
4.2L Vortec, 3.73 Gears, G80
2" Rough Country Lift, 245/75R16 Kelly Safari TSR's
Build Thread: http://www.gmc4x4.co...ic-heavy/page-1


#4 OFFLINE   dvanbramer88

 
dvanbramer88

    Back Road Traveler

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
    • Time Online: 29d 23h 36m 24s
801
Listen To This Guy!
  • Name:Dave
  • LocationPA, Bristol
  • Truck(s):97 Chevy K1500 Z71
    99 Silverado 1500 4x4
    00 Jeep XJ sport
Garage View Garage
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:35 AM

Yep. I'm either going to gut them, or replace them with straight pipe and cut the cat case in half, and weld it onto the straight pipe to make it look legit.

 

My only worry is how difficult it would be to gut the driver side (bank 1) cat with it being in the center of the pipe/cat assembly. I see myself having to cut it off to gut it, and If i go that far, I might as well "do it right" and use straight pipe and weld the cat case over the straight pipe.

 

 

I wish I could afford headers and mufflers at this point. It would be nice to do the whole exhaust system in one shot and have the headers/mufflers accounted for in the tune.


___________________________________________________________

"Raise some hell where the blacktop ends!"
Chevy Power!
:flag: :chevrolet:    BUILD THREAD
b167c32a-877f-4b10-a086-8881ecefbccc_zps
"Violence is not always evil. The judicious use of violence and those willing to use it without hesitation is often all that stands between wolves and sheep."


#5 OFFLINE   bartonmd

 
bartonmd

    Supporting Vendor

  • Supporting Vendor
  • 206 posts
    • Time Online: 5d 3h 44m 23s
148
Showoff
  • Name:Mike
  • LocationIndy
  • Occupation:Full time Engineer, part time Fabricator
  • Truck(s):2007 5.3L Trailblazer SWB 4x4 G80 3.42, Radflos, bumper, skids, sliders, QD disconnects
    2002 Chevy 2500HD ECLB 4x4, 6.0L NV4500
 

Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:31 AM

FWIW, I have shift firmness 2, and it's about right on the TB. 1 is apparently not very far from stock, and 3 is apparently pretty harsh.

 

Mike



#6 OFFLINE   dvanbramer88

 
dvanbramer88

    Back Road Traveler

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
    • Time Online: 29d 23h 36m 24s
801
Listen To This Guy!
  • Name:Dave
  • LocationPA, Bristol
  • Truck(s):97 Chevy K1500 Z71
    99 Silverado 1500 4x4
    00 Jeep XJ sport
Garage View Garage
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:54 AM

I know they recommend level 2, but I'm afraid to get it because when cold my 1-2 shift is pretty firm already.  Also while towing the boat with a bed and backseat full of camping gear last weekend, I noticed I could feel a lot of the shifts pretty well.   I know these are abnormal circumstances and don't represent 80%+ of my normal driving. Still on the fence about the shift firmness at this point.  Thanks for the input.


___________________________________________________________

"Raise some hell where the blacktop ends!"
Chevy Power!
:flag: :chevrolet:    BUILD THREAD
b167c32a-877f-4b10-a086-8881ecefbccc_zps
"Violence is not always evil. The judicious use of violence and those willing to use it without hesitation is often all that stands between wolves and sheep."


#7 OFFLINE   HARDTRAILZ

 
HARDTRAILZ

    Trail Blazer

  • Moderators
  • 1,415 posts
    • Time Online: 33d 10h 52m 15s
1,171
GMC Guru
  • Name:Kyle
  • LocationSE IN
  • Occupation:Real Estate
  • Truck(s):2006 Trailblazer
    1991 Suburban
    1988 S-10
Garage View Garage
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:41 AM

I actually have tried level 2 and 3....

 

When I had level 2 shifts and it was not real firm, just about what you think a solid shift should feel like factory. Basically takes the slop out. I now have level 3 and it feels like performance.  Nice and solid...definitely not too firm to me.  Like what my old shift kits used to feel like.  I would not go back to level 2.


___________________________________________________________

79340785-bcb7-4f88-ab8a-7f14d6d04808_zps  2006 TRAILBLAZER  20434ac4-2f57-472b-8c42-0aca6d30eeea_zps

 

Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him, better take a closer look at the American Indian.


#8 OFFLINE   dvanbramer88

 
dvanbramer88

    Back Road Traveler

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
    • Time Online: 29d 23h 36m 24s
801
Listen To This Guy!
  • Name:Dave
  • LocationPA, Bristol
  • Truck(s):97 Chevy K1500 Z71
    99 Silverado 1500 4x4
    00 Jeep XJ sport
Garage View Garage
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:45 PM

Ok, maybe I'll get the level 2 than. If level 2 is what the shift should feel like, I should be happy with it. Thanks for the advice.


___________________________________________________________

"Raise some hell where the blacktop ends!"
Chevy Power!
:flag: :chevrolet:    BUILD THREAD
b167c32a-877f-4b10-a086-8881ecefbccc_zps
"Violence is not always evil. The judicious use of violence and those willing to use it without hesitation is often all that stands between wolves and sheep."


#9 OFFLINE   dvanbramer88

 
dvanbramer88

    Back Road Traveler

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
    • Time Online: 29d 23h 36m 24s
801
Listen To This Guy!
  • Name:Dave
  • LocationPA, Bristol
  • Truck(s):97 Chevy K1500 Z71
    99 Silverado 1500 4x4
    00 Jeep XJ sport
Garage View Garage
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 02 June 2013 - 01:04 PM

Ok, here is my delema.

 

I just checked my codes since replacing the EGR line the other day. My lean codes are gone, and I didn't reset the computer; they went away on their own. Also, the bad cat code went away too. The only code that remains is

 

PO161. O2 Sensor Heater Circuit    Bank 2 sensor 2.  

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but this code means the physical circuit for the heater is bad and causing low voltage. It does not mean the 02 sensor is not getting hot enough because of some reason (bad cat right in front of it). Correct?

 

So anyway, this is a $33 dollar part from Rock auto, i replace it, and drop it off for inspection.

 

BUT, I noticed on the monitors page of my scan software, the catalyst test is not completed. So now I am worried that once i replace this O2 sensor, it will be able to complete the test and the bad cat code will come back. Which will leave me deleting the 02 sensor that is bad with the tune anyway, in the process of deleting the cats and wasting $33 dollars and some time. (You usually can't return things like O2 sensors)

 

Just spend the $200 on the tune right now, gut the cats and be done with it? OR gamble with the $33 bucks and a lost week.

 

 

I do want the tune, But it was easier to justify the cost when the tune was cheaper than replacing the cats and O2 sensor I thought I needed.


___________________________________________________________

"Raise some hell where the blacktop ends!"
Chevy Power!
:flag: :chevrolet:    BUILD THREAD
b167c32a-877f-4b10-a086-8881ecefbccc_zps
"Violence is not always evil. The judicious use of violence and those willing to use it without hesitation is often all that stands between wolves and sheep."


#10 OFFLINE   dvanbramer88

 
dvanbramer88

    Back Road Traveler

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
    • Time Online: 29d 23h 36m 24s
801
Listen To This Guy!
  • Name:Dave
  • LocationPA, Bristol
  • Truck(s):97 Chevy K1500 Z71
    99 Silverado 1500 4x4
    00 Jeep XJ sport
Garage View Garage
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:39 PM

Ok, I'm really confused now.

 

Back to the beginning

 

I had these codes several weeks ago.

 

P0161- O2 sensor heater circuit, bank 2 sensor 2

P0171- system too lean bank 1

P0174- system too lean bank 2

P0420- catalyst below efficiency threshold bank 2

 

The only thing I did was replace the EGR line I talked about in my other thread. I let it go for a week and than checked the codes again.

 

The only code I had was P0161. I didn't clear the codes, The other 3 went away on their own.

 

So now we are at my last post in this thread. I did buy that 02 sensor because i could see with my scanguage the computer couldn't talk to that sensor and all the monitors regarding that sensor were in a "fail" state.

 

I replace the sensor and plug in my scan gauge. I can now watch that O2 sensor in the chart and all the monitors for all O2 sensors are in a "pass" state. I clear the code. 2 days later the CEL comes back on.

 

Now I have codes:

P0171- system too lean bank 1

P0174- system too lean bank 2

 

again.

 

They went away on their own and came back on their own. I have a couple small exhaust leaks I have everything I need to button up, but those same exhaust leaks were present when those lean codes went away on their own. The only thing that changed since those codes went away on their own and came back on their own was the Bank 2 Sensor 2 O2 sensor was replaced and I cleared the code.

 

I have a full feature scan gauge and have the ability to watch almost anything in the form of a chart/graph and datalog in the same way.

 

Where would you start looking?

 

I'm also going to email PCMforless again and see if they can help me with the lean codes at all.


___________________________________________________________

"Raise some hell where the blacktop ends!"
Chevy Power!
:flag: :chevrolet:    BUILD THREAD
b167c32a-877f-4b10-a086-8881ecefbccc_zps
"Violence is not always evil. The judicious use of violence and those willing to use it without hesitation is often all that stands between wolves and sheep."


#11 OFFLINE   dvanbramer88

 
dvanbramer88

    Back Road Traveler

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
    • Time Online: 29d 23h 36m 24s
801
Listen To This Guy!
  • Name:Dave
  • LocationPA, Bristol
  • Truck(s):97 Chevy K1500 Z71
    99 Silverado 1500 4x4
    00 Jeep XJ sport
Garage View Garage
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:00 AM

Well for no apparent reason, while out running errands this morning, the CEL turned off, I immediately called my shop to see if I could drop it off for inspection. He said he could get me in right away, I ran over, and he ran the emissions. It passed !! :yahoo:

 

 

I just need to replace the Lower ball joints to pass safety inspection.


___________________________________________________________

"Raise some hell where the blacktop ends!"
Chevy Power!
:flag: :chevrolet:    BUILD THREAD
b167c32a-877f-4b10-a086-8881ecefbccc_zps
"Violence is not always evil. The judicious use of violence and those willing to use it without hesitation is often all that stands between wolves and sheep."


#12 OFFLINE   bushcoat

 
bushcoat

    Trucking with Jesus

  • Premium Member
  • 2,491 posts
    • Time Online: 34d 5h 17s
1,821
GMC Guru
  • Name:Adam
  • LocationBlack bay, Lake Superior
  • Occupation:Collision technician
  • Truck(s):07 Classic 1500hd Silverado 2wd.
    99 2500 4x4 6.5L TD
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:36 PM

I was lucky enough, my ol slug didnt come with a converter from factory :)

No that any cop would ever believe that im sure, but ive yet to be pulled over with my 3-4" turbo back straight pipe. Im sure one day ill kindly be asked to put on a muffler, if not a muffler and converter.
___________________________________________________________

I drive a 2wd truck, and a 4wd car :)

2007 Silverado C1500hd, 285/75R17 terra grapplers, 17x8 +12 black Rockstars, Leer 180cc cap. 235/85R16 on mismatched alloys for winter.


1999 K2500 single cab 8' bed, 344k, 6.5L T.D, NV4500, A team turbo, Recocated Dtech PMD, Two Optima red tops, 7 pin/brake controller, 2" Goodmark steel cowl hood, 2" bodylift, GMT 800/900 style tow mirrors with LED signals, Recon smoked GMT900 clearance LEDs, Putco smoked LED 3rd brake/cargo light, Headrack, boat rack, custom rear bumper in progress, Bald 245/75R15 wrangler at/s on chrome GMT800 wheels, 9.5ft snoway lobo V plow during winter.


2004 Toyota Matrix XR 4wd, 272k, auto, Optima 35 yellow top, Tow package, XM radio, Lightforce Striker 140 lighting, VIS carbon fiber hood, 205/55R16s on stock alloys for summer, 205/60R16 Bridgestone Blizzak WS70s on ugly konig's for winter.

#13 OFFLINE   Moncheche

 
Moncheche

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 87 posts
    • Time Online: 1d 9h 36m 23s
75
Awe Inspiring
  • Name:John Halgren
  • LocationGarden Prairie
  • Truck(s):1999 Chevy K1500 2000 Cherokee Sport 1957 Willys CJ3b
 

Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:32 PM

Reading this makes me appreciate country living all the more.  Safety inspection?


___________________________________________________________

1999 K1500 Suburban  NP 241 swap, upgraded to the 4L80E trans and installed a brand new crate motor.  Manual axle actuator installed to replace the electric 'work when I want to'.  


#14 OFFLINE   dvanbramer88

 
dvanbramer88

    Back Road Traveler

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
    • Time Online: 29d 23h 36m 24s
801
Listen To This Guy!
  • Name:Dave
  • LocationPA, Bristol
  • Truck(s):97 Chevy K1500 Z71
    99 Silverado 1500 4x4
    00 Jeep XJ sport
Garage View Garage
 

Awards Bar:
Users Awards

Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:07 AM

Reading this makes me appreciate country living all the more.  Safety inspection?

All of PA has safety inspection which isn't a big deal anyway. Its just brakes, tires, lights, and suspension. Stuff I keep up on anyway. Only certain counties based off population have emissions in Pa. I happen to live in one. The plan is to move to one that doesn't.

 

At home state inspection and emissions cost me about $50 a year and shops charge up to 80 or 100. Out here in State College (center county) does not have emissions and I noticed shops have signs out, PA state inspection $15. I live in such an expensive area. Hopefully moving to rural pa somewhat soon.


___________________________________________________________

"Raise some hell where the blacktop ends!"
Chevy Power!
:flag: :chevrolet:    BUILD THREAD
b167c32a-877f-4b10-a086-8881ecefbccc_zps
"Violence is not always evil. The judicious use of violence and those willing to use it without hesitation is often all that stands between wolves and sheep."


#15 OFFLINE   Bowhunter4L

 
Bowhunter4L

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 55 posts
    • Time Online: 19h 40m 3s
27
Good
  • Name:Shawn
  • LocationDuluth,MN
  • Truck(s):1999 Chevy suburban LT model
 

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:05 PM

Ok sorry if this is a stupid question but what is PCM4less ? i'm some what confused







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: removing, catsengine, tuneand, o2, sensors

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users